Mr. Rogov,

Since Israel and Lebanon have been at a State of War since 1948 and the War in 2006 which by the way affected many Israeli winegrowers and wineries I think any reviews of their wines that might encourage sales of Lebanese wines is an unbecoming a wine writer whose made his bread and butter off Israeli wines.

I'd be the first to suggest trying and writing about their wines when the Lebanese people stop electing Hezbollah representatives into their government and create a peaceful border with the country I call home.

Even though Egyptian relations with Israel are not ideal they are at peace with Israel and economic relations should be encouraged so thank you for those reviews and I hope some of their wines make their way into Israel sooner than later.

David Rhodes

Israeliwineguy@gmail.com

052-702-WINE (9463)

David, Hello....

Consider if you will that Israel is not at war with Lebanese wineries or winemakers, nearly all of whom in their own quiet way have excellent if not quietly discrete relationships with their counterparts in Israel and many of whom, in addition to being ladies and gentlemen produce fine wines.  Consider as well that perhaps reviews such as mine may encourage further knowledge, sympathy and understanding between those on both sides of the border. 

As my wine reviews are without political ideology, so I wil keep my response to you without reference to either ideology or personal politics. Do, however, keep in mind that Israel is also my home and that we may disagree is one of our privileges.

Best

Rogov

.

Unfortunately many people react the same way to Israeli wines because of politics. So my belief is wine is wine & politics is politics. Lets keep the two as far away as possible. I don't believe in boycotts.

Apart from that, some of the Lebanese wines are excellent. It is a fascinating wine country, through which we can learn more about our own terroir. Finally it should not be forgotten that most of the Lebanese wineries are owned by Maronite Christians, who aren't the greatest lovers of the hostile elements in Lebanon.

Adam

Adam,

I can't equate what uninvolved countries do as far as boycotting Israel and what an Israeli or Jew might do as far supporting a country in any way or manner that is at a state of war with Israel and in fact makes it treasonous to do business with Israel.

I have to agree to disagree. I also wouldn't choose to purchase any products from any other Arab or Muslim country who still doesn't recognize Israel or is at war with Israel or doesn't allow Jews to even set foot on their soil.

I still don't believe in driving German cars as there are still Nazis alive given succor in Germany. Maybe in another 20 years or so after any reasonable chance of ab unindicted Nazi or Nazi in hiding has expired but even then I'm not fond of supporting those who gave shelter to those fiends.

When other countries support boycotts against Israel they do so in a hypocrtical manner in what standards they hold Israel to and not themselves or other countries they hold accountable to the same standards.

I see no problem wishing to see no Jew or Israeli or any Westerner seeing funds go into a country whose government actively supports terrorists whether that country be Lebanon or Iran.

I really would not have had a problem not buying products from German vendors in the 30 or 40's or Japan in 1942 onwards during the outset of hostilities or even before as it became obvious that war was looming or just on the basis of the Nuremburg laws and don't see much of a difference except that Germany had a far more effevtive war machine than Lebanon or Iran does currently.

Von Clausewitz talked of "Total War" and how war is as much economic as it is military and money spent on Lebanese products generates tax money for their coffers and those coffers are now tied directly to Hezbollah.  I have no problem not buing any product from Gaza currently either but would be happy to consider doing so with a peaceful neighbor. Paul Kennedy also wrote in the Fall of Great Empires how outcomes of  war are seterined by the strength of economies as much as one's arsenal.

If there's a charity for Maronite rebels, let me know I'll send some of what little funds I now have but in the mean time there are thousands of wineries from dozens of countries I'd rather report on first, consume and subsidize.

On the flip side how can we as Israelis ask Jews in the US and Britain to buy Israeli wine with special consideration for supporting Israel if not for political and religious reasons. Much of the Israeli wine is bought by non-kosher Jews or by Jews who may have kosher wines available to them by other countries. 

I can't imagine that anyone in the Israeli wine industry would begin to suggest that Jews in the Diaspora shouldn't consider buying Israeli wines without any political considerations in the equation.

I for one became intersted in the Israeli wine industry primarily as a Zionist mission as I believe the Rothschild's had and I believe you had as well so I see this as a continuation of that political committment as much as anything and though I repect you and others who may hold this opinion I can't or won't be swayed with artistic sentiments towards undemocratic hostile regimes to whatever democratic country I reside and the last refuge of my ancestral people.

I'd much rather discuss this new vintage's wines than this but neither would I relent from ever defending and advancing this postion when the contrary opinion is in a public forum,

Sincerely,

David

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Hi
David,

 My $.02 

 
I don't disagree that people should consider the political and economic impact
of their purchases.   My view is that the original article is about information and knowledge and is distinct from the economic calculus of purchasing Lebanese/Egyptian wines.  Sure this may be a valid consideration, and it's one readers will decide for themselves.

You said that you wouldn’t write about or purchase these wines.  That’s perfectly valid and as Adam
mentioned others might feel this way too. 
Where I have to call a foul is that in describing your position you ruminate that,
had you been alive in the 30’s and 40’s, you would have boycotted Nazi  German products, and then you conclude
your post by suggesting that you could not forbear posting in defense of your
view when contrary views were present. 
Well, I think here you are creating an opposing view that has not been expressed by anyone here.

Scott

<!--EndFragment-->

Please don't be confused. I admire Adam and respect his views on Israeli wines more than anyone else I've yet met.

I was stating clearly for the record my convictions and feelings about an issue I hold dear to my heart and was trying to do so with the clarity and conviction as well as the emotion it could or should stir in someone who made Aliyah for political or religious reasons and not economic reasons (who makes Aliyah to make more money?).

I believe Mr Rogov tacitly suggested that Israelis and Jews buy Lebanese wines by posting that review on your site.

For any Jew not to have astrong opinion on the matter I would think to be suspect. Our own Prime Minister as often linked the Gathering Storm of Iran's nuclear threat and it's Hezbollah and Hamas proxies to that of Nazi Germany so so for me to do it is not a literary contrivance.

I think Mr Rogov opened the can of worms by choosing to cover Lebanese wines so soon after the 2006 war.

I just recently returned from vineyards that could not be tended to during that conflict and it is quite ominous to be in some with Lebanon a stone's throw away.

I won't apologize for the imagery or history I may have cited because the intent of the two parties are hand i hand, the extermination of the Jewish people and there were plenty of Germans who did not support Hitler as well but sending money to them at that time would have been funnelling money directly into the German economy as would be supporting Maronite businesses now.

I think I've said all I want to say but I won't retire from the field on this issue as long as someone wants to take the mantle because how strongly I feel though as I said before I would rather focus on what I hope this site can stay focused on is israeli wine and as I state again I'm not the one to bring non-Israeli wines to the table.

just for clarification purposes I do want to state I do not believe that anyone who takes a contrary view to mine would have given any support to Nazi Germany but I do try to draw the comparison to show the flaw in the argument that one should support products from one's declared enemies.

I believe it's a form of political correctness that Jews and Israelis can not afford the luxury to endure.

Hey David, thanks the clarification.  And I agree it is obviously a pertinent example when debating the concept of boycotts and wine.

Rogov's forum had a spirited but civil poll several weeks ago dealing with wine buying and ideology:

http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=24943&p...

Best,

Scott

I was thinking in retorspect that a better comparison for contrast would be the United States and Cuba.

Most Americans have seen the ongoing American boycott of Cuban products as pointless and even counterproductive and as a gesture to Cuban-American voters who make up a large voting bloc in the swing state of Florida.

The difference is that Cuba and the United States haven't traded shots in almost 50 years and not many Americans have seen Cuba as a threat since 1962 when the Cuban Missle Crisis was resolved.

There are times when politics should or could be ignored as a reflection of minority special interests but I think in the case of Lebanese wine, for now, I vote to stand on the side of caution and respect Israel's ban on their products (as I imagine they ban ours) and look forward to a day when it's a non-issue or something to recall with friends over a good bottle of wine

David, Hi.....

You might be amazed at how many Israeli products make their way into Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Palestine,  Jordan, the Gulf Emirates and Libya.  

As to products from those countries making their way into Israel,  think of pistachio nuts, Arak, a host of fruits and vegetables (including the fruits of the sabra catcus) , game meats, olives and olive oil...........

We in the Middle-East have learned how to play the game far better than those who pass the laws.

Best and Smiling

Rogov

Daniel

I might be amazed but I'm not.  I'm not at all suprised that we have trade going on with Egypt and Jordan. We border both countries and we have tourism and meaningfull peace with both countries and also share common allies in the United States.

I'm not suprised we have trade with the West Bank and Gaza (as far as I know there is no united Palestine until the ink is dry and they're setting up embassies). They have little choice in the matter for now except for what comes through tunnels in Gaza and the West Bank lacks infrastucture not to be dependant on it's neighbors and there is a great chance that it could be more allied with Israel in the future than Jordan, who has no love or trust of Palestinian nationalism (such as in September 1970)

Israel is a leading center of education and technology in many fields that hold interest with other nations friendly and not so friendly to our interests. If they violate their stated principals to profit from our progress and in turn support our economy... well I'll whisper thank you to them (as long as we're ending them any technology which could be later used against us) and it doesn't mean we have to buy their wares and in turn subsidize weapons coming our way.

we've made some intersting weapons deals with other countries which now makes it more challenging to get weapon deals from the US that we used to...

as far importing or supporting products from sworn enemies of Israel, I stand with my convictions even if others don't  agree. I would be disappointed if I knew of origins of products I used came from such locales and would seek trade elsewhere.

If others don't follow this path and it suits their convictions so be it. But, well before I was a wine writer I was a political editor and writer and my thirst for a moral, just and equitable world outweighs my thirst for the titalation of new wines and with so many wines do exist in the world that to exclude drinking wines from Lebanon is an easy choice when there are Italian, French, American wines and so many others I won't get the time to try I feel no loss for not haveing tried them any more than for not having tried the over 300 varietals of grapes currently being fermented in Greece or over 1000 in Italy.  I want my tombstone to read (possibly) So much wine, so little time...

There are tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of wines released every year and I know there is no possibility to even try a small percentage of ones that beckon me so...

until there's a meaningful peace, Lebanon is just making that choice a bit simpler.

I am interested in the Egyptian wines since we have a meaninful peace.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this,

May Your Next Glass Be a Great One,

David Rhodes

It is great to see the differing of opinions on this and I must say that I didn't even think about the issues for Rogov to publish tasting notes on wines from other countries in the Middle East, particularly ones that Israel is considered to be enemies of. I am glad that David brought this up which forced me to think a little deeper about this issue.
I actually had a discussion with someone recently about a similar issue; Should Kosherwine.com carry products from the occupied territories? My answer to that question is the same as how feel about Rogov posting about Lebanese wines. The role of a wine merchant and the role of a wine critic is to present the wines to the consumer and leave it up to them to act on their individual morals. As soon as we make a choice to limit information or products to the consumer we are entering into the world of politics. That is the last thing I want to do.
I think it is especially important for Israeli wine consumers and professionals to know how Israeli wines compare with other wines in the region. Rogov is doing the Israeli wine industry service by presenting this information.

well I don't agree but  i respect it's your site and are entitled to your own philosophy on what kind of content you want to include

I did build the website, but the content that is published on myKerem is entirely up to the community. The goal of this website is to be open and facilitate communication among all participants of the Israeli wine community including consumers, hobbyists, wineries and professionals.