What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Thu, 06/25/2009 - 2:19pm | Report Abuse

I couldn't get access to that link that you provided because I'm not a registered user on winespectator. Where did you come up with wadi?

I remember when Dalton produced a port style wine and they called it Portah. Is that acceptable under the EU rules? I don't know why they chose that name, but its not bad. Also I spoke to Adam Montefiore and he mentioned that Carmel calls their port style wine "Carmel Vintage". I'm not sure why they chose that name, but its not very descriptive. Maybe someone can give us the inside scoop on where either of these names came from.

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Thu, 06/25/2009 - 4:53pm | Report Abuse

I just got this response from Adam Montefiore as to why Carmel called their Port "Carmel Vintage"

Adam says:
"It is a vintage port style…. So instead of calling it Carmel Vintage Port (illegal), we called it Carmel vintage"

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Wed, 07/01/2009 - 2:05pm | Report Abuse

A few points here:

1) yes Wadi means valley, and not sure how this would accentuate anything about the wine style. Also, many a sweet wine is being produced from grapes and vineyards that did not live in a Wadi.

2) The Carmel Vintage is KILLER - here is my post about it:

2004 Carmel Vintage – Score: B+ – A-
This sweet black colored wine is rich and hot, with jammy flavors, cassis, and nice spice. The mouth on this complex and full bodied wine is spicy and hot with rich fruit and fat flavors. The finish is super jammy with spice and lovely pomegranate flavors. This is a nice “port” wine that will stand up to most anything sweet you throw its way – man how far Carmel has come from just 10 years ago!

3) The name "Vintage" - with due respect does not quite work :-) It turns out that the Carmel Vintage was a vintage port style - because all the grapes came from a single vintage (year).

I guess a nice generic term for a sweet wine - would be Matok - which is Hebrew for sweet. But not really sure, it does not sound as good as Portah. By the way Dan, that was a nice wine from Dalton, but not appreciated by most.

I must say that critics hold a sway on people, and as much as I appreciate Daniel Rogov's insight on wine, he flat out does not like sweet wines from Israel, not even the highly vaunted Tzora Or. He does like Yarden's Ice Wine, but anyway, I am rambling. To me thoughts like that from a wine critic will close people from trying the sweet wines. I think he is closed to them because he remembers the horrible Israeli wines of old.

My 2 cents!
David

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Thu, 08/20/2009 - 9:36am | Report Abuse

well

here's a couple of ideas

if you want a play on words how about calling it after historic port cities of Israel

i'm thinking Haifa, Akko, Yaffo or Caesaria

my other idea is to call it Masada to indicate it's "fortified"

David Rhodes

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Fri, 08/21/2009 - 3:33am | Report Abuse

David, Hi....

I just spotted your comments. A few possible misunderstandings here.

First, I find quite a few of Israels sweet white wines to be excellent.  My problem does indeed lie with many of the countries sweet red wines, my objections rising not so much in comparison with Old World wines (a comparison that must be made when the winery itself makes the comparison) but with the fact that I find too many of these wines coarse and without sophistication.  In too many cases wineries (especially the boutiques) take grapes that are unwanted in other wines, blend them together haphazzardly, put them in old barrels out in the sun and then call them Port or Port-style wines.  That is not the way sweet wines are supposed to be made. In too many cases it is simply a way of "getting rid of" unwanted grapes without simply throwing them away. 

As to Tzora's "Or", I did not diisike the wine at all.....in fact rated it as excellent.

Tzora Vineyards, Gewurztraminer, Dessert Wine, Or, 2006: Light, sweet and silky, almost calling to mind an ice wine, with distinct honeyed pineapple and pear fruits and a hint of kumquat marmalade on the finish. A low 8% alcohol content and good balancing acidity to make the wine both lively and tempting. Drink now. Score 89. K

Actually, quite a few sweet Israeli wines (including one red)  have made it into my new book about kosher wines.   Among those:

Carmel, Gewurztraminer, Late Harvest, Single Vineyard, Sha’al Vineyard, 2008, 2007 and 2006; 

Dalton, Liqueur Muscat, n.v.:

Binyamina, Gewurztraminer, Late Harvest Cluster Select, Reserve, 2008 

Ella Valley Vineyards, Muscat Dessert Wine, 2006: 

Golan Heights Winery, Noble Semillon, 2005, 2004, 2003 and 2002

Golan Heights Winery, Heightswine, Yarden, 2006, 2005, and 2004

Katlav, Cabernet Sauvignon, Dessert Wine, 2006

 Best

Rogov

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Sun, 08/23/2009 - 3:06am | Report Abuse

Ah... different day same story

when I worked for the San Pasqul Wineryin San Diego we made a wine we called port that was made from Old Vine Zinfandel grapes and fortified with brandy and it was very well accepted

I think wineries could concievebly take a Champagne naming compromise and put on their lable made in the Port Method so that when made form different grapes and not form Portugal could still give consumers the wine makers intentions but not diminish the brand of PORT

for instance Tishbi's Barbera Zinfandel wine could read

Barbera/Zinfandel

Fortified Red Dessert Wine

made in the Port Method or Port style

it worked for sparkling wines and there's no reason other trademarks could be protected but wine style conveyed to the public in a similar manner

In Israel some of the "ports" are made without brandy and have clear alcohol added to fortify (this seems to happen more with wineries that don't have their own distillery) at least this is the impression I got talking to several winemakers

I would like to see Tawny and Ruby style on the label as well

Blanc de Blanc is a term used internationally and there's no reason international terms can't be found for International wine trademarks...

what I'm saying is there doesn't just need to be an Israeli solution and it's better for export I think if it isn't an exclusive term though I think there are some clever options

Re: What to call Israeli port-syle wines?

Sun, 08/23/2009 - 11:22am | Report Abuse

Daniel,

aren't there many wines made in the Champagne method (who say as much on their label) that might use non-Champagne grapes such as many Cava wines and do you really castgate all who do so (though many foriegn producers do choose to use the three most common grapes when available)

I think as a wine writer we can offer up creative solutions that the wineries might find tempting but ulitmatelly needs to be a discussion between wineries, distributors and Portugal/ EU wine bureaucrats more than any prefernce of any wine writer (including me)

the problem with just printing fortified wine is very little of the prospective "port" buying population knows what a fortified wine is

(through my experience here in Israel and in California though in EU with it's history of Port, Sherry and Madeira there probably is a much higher awareness

ultimately there should or could be a compromise between the IP rights of Portugal and the marketing needs of other fortified wine makers and I believe there have been other compromises

I think Portugal has exerted it's rights in the EU and it's starting to gain traction and complete observance in the US but I'm not sure exactly what hte specifics are of any current agreement and would be curious if anyone knew

anyway i enjoy talking about appelation and varietal requirements that are much less of an issue in New World wines than Old World wines

so tanks for the comments

I enjoy dialectic discussions about wine

David