What is Israel's National Grape?

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Wed, 07/29/2009 - 9:28pm | Report Abuse

I think it would be a good marketing tool to associate one or two grapes with a specific region (i.e. Israel). I like the idea of Shiraz, unfortunately, in the US it will always be associated with Aussie wine. Exported Australian wine has grown tremendously because of its association with Shiraz. Kind of like Italy and Pinot Grigio to an extent. Carignan and Petit Sirah are the obvious choices. More wineries should pursue this opportunity to set Israel apart from other wine growing countries/regions. These grapes are also great when blended properly with Cabernet and Shiraz.

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Wed, 07/29/2009 - 10:20pm | Report Abuse

Many dry wine lover's might abhor this but I think Israel could really break into the mainstream markets with Moscato. I know that at KosherWine.com we have many customers buying Golan Moscato just because they love the wine, totally irregardless of kosher status or region. I think Moscato really is a niche waiting to be filled in the US, and Israel is in a great position to fill it. Think about it, Israel can actually make moscatos that are the same or lower in price than Italian moscatos, and they have the advantage of being able to offer more attractive packaging than Italian moscatos.

And moscato is a unique style to many wine drinkers, so something like Golan Moscato can really stand out in a crowded market. Let's say you're having a wine tasting at a shop, on any given day I think that most of the people in the store will have never tried a moscato from anywhere before. And let's face it, to taste moscato is to like moscato, at least for people who like some sweetness.

Israel is ahead of the game in the moscato department. Have you ever heard of California Moscato? Australian Moscato? Chilean Mocato? I have literally only seen 1 Australian Moscato ever, and it cost almost $20 for a 500ml bottle!!! So yes, we know that Italy developed the light, fizzy style of moscato, but since not that many Americans have had Italian moscato, to them something like a Carmel Moscato will be a wine like nothing they've ever tasted before.

This is what will get Israel in the door of wine shops and get it sold not as kosher wine only but as Israeli wine: When a wine merchant can put a stack of Israeli wine in his store and move through it and re-order it over and over. Israeli moscato could do that right now.

Then let's say Israel has like 4 great moscatos, so maybe then the store owner will be like, well, maybe I'll give those other three a try this Golan Moscato sold so well. Maybe that would lead to an Israeli wine section, and once there's an Israeli wine section, then he might say, "well, maybe I should throw some Cabernet in there..."

I am not a scholar in grape history, but I do think there would be some historical basis for Muscat as a trademark grape for Israel: It's my understanding that it's a demonstrably ancient grape, and particularly has an association with Mediterranean cultures. To quote Jancis Robinson: "Muscat grapes were probably the first to be distinguished and identified and have grown around the Mediterranean for many, many centuries."

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:44pm | Report Abuse

Scott, Hi...

The very best wines made from the Muscat grape, many of those from Australia and South Africa, Italy and France are sweet dessert wines and indeed there is no shortage of those. The more refreshing and often frizzante wines to which you refer (e.g Moscato d'Asti) can be delightful but are almost always rather frivolous.

I would suggest that the last thing that Israel needs to conquer the wine world is another sweet wine that many will perceive as appropriate priarily for kiddush.

There is no shame in not having a "national grape". Neither California, Australia nor New Zealand have such a grape and they seem to be doing just fine so far. Indeed Israel may find the grape/s best suited to its climates and winemakers but those will almost certainly be contained on the lists of noble varieties from France, Italy and possibly Spain.

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Thu, 07/30/2009 - 1:44pm | Report Abuse

Ernie, Hi.....

Your wines very often delight me in the most positive sense but your mention of Emerald Riesling made me out-and-out chuckle. True, I will taste the abundance of half-dry Emerald Riesling releases here in Israel and I will judge them according to the standards for which this grape is capable. Despite that, as I have said before, I wish you and yours a life long enough to wait for the day that I walk into a wine shop and voluntarily order a bottle of half-dry Emerald Riesling for my pleasure.

As to the few dry Emerald Rieslings and dry Muscat wines that have been made in Israel what can I say other than to call them "oddities". With regard to your observation that this grape can produce a "Riesling-like wine", let me remind you of the wisdom of our forefathers: "If it's like an egg, it isn't as good as an egg".

I'm with you on the potential of Petite Sirah. Also on the possible potential within parts of Israel of Cabernet Franc.

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Thu, 07/30/2009 - 4:13pm | Report Abuse

I believe it is too early to select a national variety in Israel. Even though we have been making wine for 5,000 years, it is only in the last few years that wineries are experimenting with a full range of varieties in different microclimates.

Of course the so called national variety does not have to be the best wine. The best Israeli wines today are Cabernet Sauvignons or Bordeaux blends and tomorrow they may well be made from Shiraz.

However my favorite candidate is the modest Carignan grape variety. It was the first well-known variety planted in Israel in 1882-3, and so is part of our history. Since then it has been used in every style of Israeli wine including kiddush wine & simple blends.
Lately the ugly duckling has turned into a swan in areas like Priorat & Corbieres. Also in Israel - low yield, old vine vineyards have produced some really fine wines. It is a Mediterranean variety very well suited to our hot (and getting hotter climate.)

Another candidate is the Petite Sirah, which came to Israel in the 1970's. Another variety ideal for Israel.In any case , who wants to drink Cabernet & Merlot all the time?!
Adam Montefiore

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Thu, 07/30/2009 - 11:50pm | Report Abuse

I see that this has been suggested and answered by Adam.

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 07/31/2009 - 9:41am | Report Abuse

I once saw someone post on a wine forum about a vertical tasting of Lebanon's Chateau Musar, and they mentioned that the Chateau Musar Blanc was made a from Obaideh, which they claimed was indigenous to Lebanon. I couldn't find a lot of info on the grape, but some online sources suggested Obaideh might be a local strain of Chardonnay.

Rogov, do you know anything about this grape. Are there any other "indigenous" Lebanese grapes?

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 07/31/2009 - 11:11am | Report Abuse

Scott, Hi....

With regard to Lebanon, two grapes stand out as possibly indigenous. Indeed the Obeidah (also correctly spelled Obaidah) grape is indigenous to Lebanon. Many have speculated that the grape was returned to France by Crusaders and later evolved into what is now the modern Chardonnay grape. To this point, however, even DNA testings have proven inconclusive, some DNA researchers feeling that Chardonnay actually originated with a Greek vine and only after that made its way simultaneously in about the 16th century to both Lebanon and France.

The other grape that many Lebanese consider indigenous is Merwah. Alas, even this is in question as it seems that Merway is nothing more than a synonym for Semillon and current evidence indicates that this grape originated in Central Europe. Some have pinpointed the actual source as being in Croatia.

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 07/31/2009 - 11:26am | Report Abuse

Dan, Hi...

You ask if the Argaman grape failed because it was developed before the Israeli wine industry had started producing fine wines.

Sorry, but can't let you off the hook that easily. If memory servesm Argaman was first introduced in 1988, quite some time after Israeli wine revolution had started. At any rate, my own hypothesis is that the fault lies not with the wineries or winemakers but with the grapes.

Although still planted, most have given up on the grape, using it primarily to heighten the color concentration of mid- to lower-level wines. To the best of my knowledge the only major winery to release an acceptable varietal Argaman was Segal but in order to give the wine some body, tannins and flavor the grapes were fermented on skins and heavy lees of Merlot grapes. The wine (my review follows) is a good one but I cannot help but wonder if is good enough that winemaker Avi Feldstein will bother with another release.

Best
Rogov

Segal, Argaman, Rechasim, Dovev, 2006: Dark, literally impenetrable royal purple in color and medium- to full bodied, one might be tempted to think this wine was made entirely from Argaman grapes (a cross between Carignan and Sauzao) but that is not quite the case. Argaman may boast fantastic depth of color but is, to be charitable, lacking in most other qualities (e.g. tannins, aroma or flavour), so to give this wine the "push" it needed, it was fermented on the skins of Merlot grapes and then aged in French and American oak barriques, half of which were new, for 18 months. It might not be unfair to say that while we can credit the Argaman grapes for the wine's deep color, the tannins, flavours and acids came from the Merlot and the oak. Despite all of which, the spicy and smoky wood proves somewhat dominant, the tannins come out as just a bit chunky (i.e. country-style) and the plum and berry flavors prove jammy and perhaps just a bit too near-sweet. Interestingly, not a bad wine so much as it is a highly stylized wine that many may enjoy. My estimate is that this is not a wine meant for cellaring, its elements never coming together fully and perhaps destined to collapse within the next year or two. Worth trying a bottle to see if this is to your taste. Drink now or in the next year or so. Score 85. K (Re-tasted 3 Dec 2008)

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/02/2009 - 1:32pm | Report Abuse

Rogov, Hi!

I find it hard to believe that with all of the archaeological research underway in Eretz someone has not been able to determine the grape varieties of ancient Israel. One would think that residue (found on ceramic amphorae commonly in use for transporting wine throughout the Mediterranean and West Asia) could undergo advanced methods of analysis to determine grape types in the area and possibly to pinpoint those exported from ancient Israel.

In recent excavations such residue has shown that herbs and tree resin were added to wine to produce medicinal concoctions. I believe it is only a matter of a short time before our mystery can be resolved. Then we may be able to determine if Israel really has a national grape worthy of regeneration.

Regards,
Dog

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/02/2009 - 4:30pm | Report Abuse

Dr D., Hi....

I am an optimist but I think you have me beat on this count. Indeed it has long been known that additives were used with ancient Israeli wines when they reached Rome and some were added for medicinal purposes. Not all though. Others were added simply in order to make the wine drinkable. Among the additives, a variety of herbs, spices, tree barks, fresh and dried flowers and sea water.

More than that, a good deal of evidence points in the direction that many of the vines that were planted in ancient Israel had been brought here from Turkey, Syria and Greece and were not indigenous at all. Going a step further, it is also clear that many of the grapes that were used, as is still the case among Christians in neighboring countries and even in Israel, were table grapes. While those were capable of producing wine for everyday drinking they would certainly not be up to the production of what the modern palate considers "high quality wine"

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/02/2009 - 10:17pm | Report Abuse

I concede, Rogov. The prospects for a new and unique grape variety coming out of Israel are dismal.

You and Gil are right. The adoption of the best grape varieties available, used to produce the best quality wine, is the answer. Such wine will take on its own unique characteristics by nature... as the soil and climate do their part to create something distinguishing. Wine producers have enough challenges without having to "invent" a new grape too.

Regards,
D.Dog

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 08/07/2009 - 8:57am | Report Abuse

David,when I was in Israel last month I kept hearing that Cabernet Franc was a favorite among winemakers, interestingly I didn't hear a word about Petit Verdot. Do you know which wineries are producing wines from this grape?

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 08/07/2009 - 1:49pm | Report Abuse

Dr Dog, Hi...

Forgive me if I sound like an elitist but popularity and quality do not always (in fact rarely) walk hand in hand. Coca Cola is enormously popular on almost the entire planet but would we declare that anywhere near the "best" beverage available? Me doubts it.

If we were to go by popularity the most popular grape of Israel would be Emerald Riesling and that is far from a grape capable of producing a high quality wine. Not a grape that will make a mark on the even most basically sophisticated wine lovers of the world.

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Fri, 08/07/2009 - 4:00pm | Report Abuse

Dr Dog, Hi....

Lest I be misunderstood, three points.

1. The people of most countries do not consider themselves "sophisticated" wine consumers, and the vast majority of wines produced are consumed within the region of their production. And that largelly because those wines are of no interest even to those in neighboring villages. I am not at all saying that this is a bad thing. I think such wines can have great charm and offer great pleasure at their own level.

2. Just for the record, there are huge diffences between Riesling, which is one of the most noble grape varieties producing many of the world's best white wines and Emerald Riesling which is a distinctly lower-level grape capable at best of producing mediocre wines.

3. As to who will "rule" - that wil not be the conoisseurs, the "elite" (whomever they may be), the critics nor even the winemakers. It will be the people who buy and consume wines. With regard to the aristocracy, I can safely state that they were largely done away with during and after the French revolution.

Best
Rogov

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sat, 08/08/2009 - 12:52pm | Report Abuse

Regarding Petit Verdot, it is true it is proving to be a great blending grape in Israel. The grape ripens more effectively in Israel than Bordeaux. The question is whether it is complex & balanced enough to produce a varietal wine. However in the flagship wines of the wineries I work for, it is more dominant than Merlot.

The Carmel Limited Edition 2005 was made from a blend of: 65% Cabernet Sauvignon, 17% Petit Verdot, 15% Merlot & 3% Cabernet Franc.

The Yatir Forest 2006 is made from: 50% Cabernet Sauvignon, 38% Petit Verdot, 12% Merlot.

Regarding Cabernet Franc, certainly it is more popular with wineries  as a varietal than both Carignan & Petite Sirah. However I believe the last two are more suitable for our hot Israeli climate.

An interesting historical point about Cabernet Franc is that when Baron Edmond de Rothschild insisted on planting Bordeaux varieties in the late 1880's, he planted Cabernet Sauvignon, Malbec and Cabernet Franc. However they planted on his insistence more Cab Franc than both Cab Sauvignon and Malbec!

Regards,

Adam

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sat, 08/08/2009 - 1:57pm | Report Abuse

David,

Also sorry you did not make it.

Yes, in the end the Bordeaux grapes were grubbed up/ uprooted because of phylloxera and they discovered there was no market for a quality Bordeaux style blend. The market wanted kosher kiddush wine,  sacramental wine 'from the Holy Land' for the Christian market, or inexpensive bulk wine.

However even then there was the debate between the benefits of Bordeaux varieties & Mediterranean varieties. Rothschild himself wanted Bordeaux varieties, whereas others wanted Mediterranean varieties (like Carignan & Grenache) because they could get higher yields and they thought South of France varieties were more suitable to the climate of 'Palestine.'

Regards,

Adam

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sat, 08/08/2009 - 10:55pm | Report Abuse

there's a reason Israel  has the lagest planting of Emerald Riesling, no one else takes it seriously and most Israeli winemakers only use it for blending and then mostly on low end wines. If a riesling would emerge it would more likely be White Riesling though  neither really seem to have huge potential from my survey of winemakers here.

Sauvignon Blanc does seem to do well here and better examples are emerging as winemakers and grape growers gain better expereince with the grape. There are some viral problems with Chardonnay here that might switch some better vineyard sites to Sauvignon Blanc which can only help it in the long run but as far as a "national"grape that ship is already sailing to New Zealand and Israel couldn't compete in quanity, price or suitable climate.

Petite Sirah has potential but it's doubtful. There are some decent examples coming out but most winemakers seem to think on it's own it's not nuanced enough to produce high end wines and it often more popular as part of blends.  The most tauted example of Petite Sirah is Recanati's Petite Sirah/Zinfandel designed by former winemaker Lewis Pasco (UC Davis trained).

Some wine winemakers think Israel is too young to even try to choose a signature grape but that's the difference between artisits and marketers.

David Rhodes

Israeliwineguy@gmail.com

food & wine writer for Travelujah.com, ESRA magazine and RustyMikeRadio.com

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sat, 08/08/2009 - 11:18pm | Report Abuse

Side note D.R. referred to david rhodes, but actually david raccah also made the point about cabernet franc. Its funny that there are a lot of Daniels and Davids on this thread. Very confusing! I'm thinking of changing my screen name to Hector that would no doubt be unique on this forum.

Dan

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sat, 08/08/2009 - 11:49pm | Report Abuse

I've heard that it is surmised that grpaes from Portugal and spain might have reached there from Phoenicians bringing wine from Israel and therefore Carignan might be a grape that has "roots" here.

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/09/2009 - 1:48am | Report Abuse

Yep,

Daniel Rogov already listed out the best Cabernet Francs, on a thread in his forum.  The best ones I have tasted so far (the kosher ones), are clealy:

1) Ella Valley

2) Recanati

3) Gvaot

4) Gush Etzion

5) Tanya

6) Carmel --> Though this one is a Cabernet in a CF clothing/bottle

David

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/09/2009 - 4:46am | Report Abuse

try Peter or Pedro or Jesus (prounounced Hay-seus)

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/09/2009 - 10:55am | Report Abuse

To the contrary, David.

I think if you look back at the notes I wrote you will see that  I did not say that the Israeli wine drinking public was unsophisticated.  My comments were in response to a question which I posed regarding the "democracy of choosing a national grape." By that I meant that perhaps the views of the Israeli public SHOULD be heard. My exact statement was:

"You know, we really have not factored popularity into this discussion. Does democracy speak here? I should think that a "national grape" should somewhat reflect the general consensus....which may ignite a whole new question: How sophisticated is the Israeli wine drinking public?"

Dan Rogov replied by saying that Emerald Riesling was the most popular wine among the Israeli public. His exact statement was this:

"Forgive me if I sound like an elitist but popularity and quality do not always (in fact rarely) walk hand in hand. Coca Cola is enormously popular on almost the entire planet but would we declare that anywhere near the "best" beverage available? Me doubts it.If we were to go by popularity the most popular grape of Israel would be Emerald Riesling and that is far from a grape capable of producing a high quality wine. Not a grape that will make a mark on the even most basically sophisticated wine lovers of the world."

I have been to Israel many times.I will take your suggestion and make a point of stopping into a wine festival next time I am there. I love Israeli wines of all types and was merely trying to join in and expand upon a very interesting, lively discussion.

Sincerely,
D.D., Ph.D.

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/09/2009 - 12:08pm | Report Abuse

If I reflect as a wine professional,  I think that it is far too early to pick 'the' Israeli variety. Most winemakers will say this. Lets continue to experiment and learn and the answer may come in the next 25 years or so.

As a marketing person, I agree Israel needs its unique selling point. I have certainly found in meetings with foreign customers & journalists, they are most interested in the more exotic, unusual varieties, like Cabernet Franc, old vine Carignan & Petite Sirah.

It appears to be more a marketing driven need to discuss this & come up with a definitive answer now. As for me, as I said in an earlier post, I am always happy to drink something other than Cabernet Sauvignon & Merlot.

Regards,

Adam

Re: What is Israel's National Grape?

Sun, 08/09/2009 - 3:03pm | Report Abuse

Indeed true and indeed a great idea.  But (!!!) this kind of thing has been going on in France, Italy, Spain, Hungary Germany, Turkey, and Greece for hundreds of years and those wines, although perfectly acceptable on the local table have little to say in the way of quality or interest.  I can assure you, Scott, that if you were to do this in any of those countries, you might well enjoy the wines with your lunch or dinner but you would not dream of taking any back to your own country for later drinking.  Even today one can fill their own bottles in France for as little as half a Euro per liter (some US 75 cents). 

That is not to say there is anything wrong with such wines.  They can even be lovely but only in their own context and certainly have nothing whatever to do with a nation's ability to enter the world-wine market.   Such may in some contexts represent the vox populi but, playing on the words of Oscar Wilde, the only thing wrong with such common wines is that they are so very common.

Best

Rogov